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Contiki
Jan 26, 2015 15:40:04 GMT
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Post by gsteemso on Jan 26, 2015 15:40:04 GMT
I’m slightly embarrassed that I missed this system before. I’d like to experiment with this OS on my C128, but can’t find anything resembling a disk image or the like on the official Contiki website. Does anyone know how to install it and/or customize it?
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Post by hydrophilic on Jan 27, 2015 7:18:52 GMT
I feel for you, gsteemso! That site seemed a bit lacking in the technical department. I have been studying several different Ethernet possibilities for the C128 (like 1541-Ultimate+RR Net, and C64NIC+) but so far have not invested in any of them (in terms of software). Hopefully I will get some device this year, and then we can collaborate (hopefully!) on some cool 'net' software!
Edit Just wanted to say (could very EASILY be wrong) that it seems that RR Net and C64NIC+ are "low-level" protocols dealing with Ethernet communication. On the other hand, Contiki (and some others not mentioned) rely on "high-level" protocols, such as HTTP (or FTP?). Of course a web browser (like Contiki) must do even HIGHER level stuff... like HTML rendering and/or javascript execution... and of course many (most?) web pages also use CSS which is another layer of abstraction! /Edit
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Contiki
Feb 23, 2015 17:23:03 GMT
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Post by gsteemso on Feb 23, 2015 17:23:03 GMT
For Ethernet on my Commodores I use a Flyer. It works equally well with everything from a PET through to C128 and Plus/4. (It would probably even work with the B-series and C65, though I have not personally heard of anyone trying that.) Last week I downloaded a copy of the Contiki sources. I hope to find time to make Contiki work with the Flyer at some point. It would free up a LOT of memory.
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Post by robertb on Feb 24, 2015 5:36:46 GMT
gsteemso wrote: > Last week I downloaded a copy of the Contiki sources. I hope to find time to make Contiki work with the Flyer at some point. That would be excellent! Truly, Robert Bernardo July 18-19 Commodore Vegas Expo v11 2015 - www.portcommodore.com/commvex
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Post by gsteemso on Jun 28, 2015 3:19:43 GMT
I finally admitted I was completely out of my depth, and wrote to one of the Contiki developers who has done a lot of work on the Commodore-specific ports as well as the rest of the OS.
Alas, he says that all the software for Contiki is so heavily integrated across all levels of the IP protocol stack that the only practical way forward would involve getting low-level access to the Flyer’s WizNet W5100 module (I think that was the name of it, anyway), and micromanaging it like it was a more traditional, “dumb” Ethernet controller. I’m fairly certain that level of fiddliness is intentionally not exposed by the Flyer’s DOS-like command syntax.
So, either we redo the whole Contiki OS and all its included software, or we get Brandon to add an entire additional syntax for commanding the Flyer at a very low level, or it’s not happening, basically.
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Post by zap on Mar 10, 2016 12:22:06 GMT
gsteemso wrote: > Last week I downloaded a copy of the Contiki sources. I hope to find time to make Contiki work with the Flyer at some point. That would be excellent! Truly, Robert Bernardo July 18-19 Commodore Vegas Expo v11 2015 - www.portcommodore.com/commvexThat would be excellent I asked the developer of the Flyer but it was not on the too do list.. I would place a $100 bounty on public release of contiki web tools for the Flyer. contiki.cbm8bit.com/ official release site for contiki web tools. A how too by Oliver cbm8bit.com/articles/user-contributions/compile-contikizap.
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Contiki
Mar 11, 2016 4:41:29 GMT
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Post by gsteemso on Mar 11, 2016 4:41:29 GMT
Oops. Knew I forgot to tell you folks about something! I was in touch, several months ago, with the fellow who has done most of the recent work on the C128 port of Contiki… Essentially, Contiki is carefully arranged at every level based on the assumption that it can direct the network interface at a low level in real time. Thus, it has evolved over the years to adopt very modern internet features such as IPv6 without much fuss, because it constructs all network packets from scratch and can do so without externally imposed preconceptions.
This state of affairs is, as I understand matters, fundamentally incompatible with indirect network access via a device such as a Flyer (or, I believe, a Comet), which does all network operations internally in a “black box” kind of way, accessed at one remove by commands over some other kind of interface (IEEE-488 or Commodore Serial Bus for the Flyer, user-port RS-232 for most Comets). Such devices can only update their handling of network protocols via a firmware upgrade, which is not especially practical for several very good reasons. Unless a future Flyer or Comet firmware upgrade adds a feature to allow the blind transmission of arbitrarily constructed network packets, Contiki will never be able to make use of either one. Since such a feature would to some extent run counter to those devices’ design goals, I do not foresee it becoming a priority for any of their various developers any time soon.
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Post by zap on Mar 11, 2016 9:24:40 GMT
An idea would be to have a serial port added to the flyer in a future version or hacked into the current version then run contiki and configure it to use the serial port via a cable from the serial port on the flyer to the user port.
Or a software interface run on the Flyer maybe with a link from the user port hacked to the Flyer.
zap.
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Contiki
Mar 14, 2016 14:59:00 GMT
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Post by gsteemso on Mar 14, 2016 14:59:00 GMT
…Uh, what? What would any of that achieve? The Flyer already communicates quickly and efficiently with the Commodore over the Commodore Serial Bus. That is not the problem. The problem is that the Flyer is designed to simplify network communications by presenting a useful subset of them (HTTP and TCP over IPv4) in the form of a drive-type device. Unfortunately, Contiki requires far lower-level access, with the possibility of constructing ANY type of network packet from scratch. This uses a lot more resources on the main Commodore, but allows Contiki to natively support things like IPv6 that became the norm since the Flyer was designed.
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Post by zap on Mar 14, 2016 22:55:11 GMT
The Flyer does not have a serial link that current C-128/64 serial programs can use. I was thinking we could hack a Serial to Ethernet device to the Flyer this would allow C-128/64 serial programs compatibility to the Flyer like the Comet and then look at adding the serial slip driver to the C-128/64 version of Contiki it's a little out of the box thinking but might prompt other ideas. contiki.sourceforge.net/docs/2.6/a01693.htmlI'll look into this with Stingray and send some feedback to Oliver even if we just get to make the Flyer Compatible with C-128/64 serial programs then it's worthwhile for me. zap
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