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Post by mirkosoft on Mar 14, 2016 23:34:51 GMT
Hi!
Maybe lot of you will think "this idiot is creating The Ace OS!"...
OK, no matter. Longer time ago I was writting on The Ace web about SCPU advantges and its disadvantages in case of C128.
One of disadvantages is unaccessible Z80. In my eyes is Z80 powerful CPU which costs less memory and has more effective code than X65 family and since I'm learning x86 assembler I see how is similar to it - but why not - at beginning was 8080 and 8086...
In The Ace is available support of Z80 apps and I own SCPU128 - when I want access Z80 I must to turn off SCPU...
On web I was writting about CP/M cartridge and using its Z80 with C128 and SCPU. Yes, in many ways it looks like impossible stupidity, also I'm poor in hardware.
When can C64 without MMU and other advanced features of C128, acess Z80 why dont try it by C128? And it maybe can work with active SCPU...
Mabe CP/M cartridge turns after power on C128 to 64 mode - I don't know, but I need to know 2 imporant things 'cause:
I'm bidding in CP/M cartridge auction and if I win, I'll try all things written above, but:
1. Is safe to connect CP/M cart into SCPU pass-thru port and turn on C128 with active SCPU? Q reason is simple - my SCPU is too precious and irretrievable.
2. If nobody knows, how much I'm in risk?
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Post by zap on Mar 14, 2016 23:54:46 GMT
A little off topic but i host and look after supercpu.cbm8bit.com/ The Home Of The SuperCPU if anyone try's anything and wishes to add your information for others to share about the SuperCPU email me or post here and i will add your information to the site also any programs not listed for the SuperCPU. Send a screenshot and link to program also a little first hand review. My experience i plugged my CP/M cartridge into the SuperCPU 128 with MMU/16meg on the C-128 in C-128 mode and C64 mode and found the CP/M cartridge did not work. If you get another result please share it with me. I can almost guarantee anyone with a CP/M cartridge and a SuperCPU would have tried. zap. |
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Post by mirkosoft on Mar 18, 2016 22:14:33 GMT
I won auction, so when CP/M cartridge arrives I'll report results.
Miro
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Post by hydrophilic on Mar 30, 2016 7:38:39 GMT
I think it was written by some hardware folks at Commodore (maybe Bil Herd?) that CP/M cartridge would not work with C128 in any mode? Even without SuperCPU! Don't know where I read that or how true it is...
But according to CP/M cartridge documents, the Z80 sees the memory inside the CBM as shifted around, by an offset of $1000 as I recall. I think the way the cartridge interfaces to memory, and the way C128 memory is now handled by MMU (and special bus buffers) that cause the incompatibility.
I think this memory incompatibility is also related to why Chameleon does not work on C128.
Just theory... I don't own any of them for actual testing...
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Post by mirkosoft on Apr 6, 2016 19:51:54 GMT
Today CP/M cartridge arrived and I'm very surprised!
Commodore 64 CP/M 2.2 works even if is SCPU128 active!!!!
It needs only turn SCPU to SLOW mode and CP/M loads and works. For to be sure I removed cartridge from expasion port and tried to load CP/M 2.2 - it performs after loading main file only power on message of C64 mode.
So, first test result:
C64 mode, SCPU on, SCPU slow = works
C64 mode, SCPU on, SCPU fast = fails
C64 mode, SCPU off = works
This night or tomorrow I'lltry to activate Z80 manually, first in C64 mode, later try C128 mode.
When C128 mode fails, ok, but still available Z80 for C64 mode with 65816 at 1MHz - and I can add this feature to The Ace...
Miro
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Post by mirkosoft on Apr 7, 2016 3:05:20 GMT
Now I tested it all with amazng results! So, look here: CP/M CARTRIDGE RESULTS TABLE -------------------------------- C64 mode, SCPU off = CP/M works C64 mode, SCPU on, SCPU slow = CP/M works C64 mode, SCPU on, SCPU fast = CP/M fails C64 mode, SCPU off = Z80 works C64 mode, SCPU on, SCPU slow = Z80 works C64 mode, SCPU on, SCPU fast = Z80 works, timing at switch back fails C128 mode, SCPU off = Z80 works C128 mode, SCPU on, SCPU slow = Z80 works C128 mode, SCPU on, SCPU fast = Z80 works, timing at switch back fails I tried also execute CP/M 2.2 in C128 mode but loader is placed to $0801 and C128 has different handling this area. I attached 2 files for testing Z80 CPU inside CP/M cartridge, switch from/to Z80 is different to Z80 inside C128, memory organization too and of course both Z80 can see only first 64K - but now can everybody use 65816 with Z80! File SWITCH needs to execute by SYS4864 Miro switch.prg (9 B) z80routine.prg (32 B) 22 29 37 |
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Post by mirkosoft on Apr 7, 2016 3:44:07 GMT
For completing tests I tried to run CP/M 2.2 in C128 mode, results are not surprise:
C128 mode, SCPU off = CP/M 2.2 fails
C128 mode, SCPU on, SCPU slow = CP/M 2.2 fails
C128 mode, SCPU on, SCPU fast = CP/M 2.2 fails
No matter, C128 can work with newer version of CP/M but only without SCPU.
Miro
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Post by zap on Apr 7, 2016 7:10:47 GMT
I added a Users Faqs page to The Home Of The SuperCPU lots of features to add by it's up. Miro i used you results for the first FAQ hope this is ok you can see it here PM or post any changes and i will edit it. supercpu.cbm8bit.com/user-faqs.phpAny other FAQs would be great to help work this feature out, i added a online form to add to the site and will attempt to add a way for others to upload FAQS with a approval function to stop the spammers etc but for now email me your FAQ & Files and i will add it. User feedback drives changes as with all our projects. Shane. |
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Post by mirkosoft on Apr 7, 2016 8:42:48 GMT
Update: 2 files modified to better use: SWITCH - detecting current SCPU speed > automatic switching SCPU Fast to Slow > execute > switch to speed detected at check Z8502 - now calling Z80 has solved Pogram Counter, so can be executed so many times how user want Miro switch.prg (37 B) z8064.prg (35 B) 23 |
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Post by mirkosoft on Apr 7, 2016 10:29:06 GMT
Add:
What these results giving us?
- C128 has without SCPU 3 CPUs: MOS 8502, Z80 inside C128, Z80 inside cartridge
- C128 has with SCPU 2 CPUs: WDC 65816 and Z80 inside cartridge
- in C64 mode are available without SCPU 2 CPUs: 8502 and Z80 inside cartridge
- in C64 mode with SCPU are available 2 CPUs: 65816 and Z80 inside cartridge
Real Commodore 64 is same as C64 mode only instead 8502 it has 6502
What it means?
C128 can work in both modes with code of these CPU families: X65, 65K and X80 - even C128 without SCPU has 2 Z80 CPUs!
C64 too...
Miro
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