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Post by eslapion on Nov 29, 2020 6:54:14 GMT
Replace all 16 DRAM ICs of the C128 with a single small module for just 15$ or 13 Euros. Saruman-128 prototype installed and working.Coming soon!
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Post by gsteemso on Nov 29, 2020 17:42:14 GMT
Nicely done, but why? What circumstance could prompt total replacement of my 128's system RAM? I'm totally lost as to the use case.
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Post by tokra on Nov 29, 2020 19:09:50 GMT
SRAM-replacement is the only known fix for the VSP-bug. I have a similar replacement-board in my C128D that has been a VSP-bug-superspreader (so to speak) and since the SRAM-replacement is VSP-safe.
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Post by eslapion on Dec 1, 2020 2:47:14 GMT
Nicely done, but why? What circumstance could prompt total replacement of my 128's system RAM? I'm totally lost as to the use case. A lot of C128 are fitted with MT (Micron Technology) DRAM chips which fail easily. They also consume a lot of power and 4164 DRAM ICs and are getting harder to come by as they are out of production for more than 20 years now. This single replacement module will do the job of all 16 DRAM ICs using modern static RAM which consume less than 2% the amount of power used by the original 16 4164 DRAM ICs. Less heat, less stress on the power supply and much less likely to fail. Also a solution to the VSP bug, as mentioned by Tokra.
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Post by eslapion on Dec 3, 2020 1:57:29 GMT
Ray Carlsen indicates he tested the product and he is very satisfied with it.
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Post by eslapion on Dec 8, 2020 6:21:21 GMT
Now AVAILABLE! Order here! Shipping to the U.S. is 8$US. Shipping to Europe is 8 Euros. Shipping to Australia is 10$US.
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Post by gsteemso on Jan 20, 2021 19:31:55 GMT
A very nicely assembled little unit! Looks pretty slick when mounted.
I am curious as to how adaptable the design is. One of the more interesting types of C128 modification is to personally add some or all of the missing onboard RAM banks.
(As we know, the system ROMs have complete support for RAM banks 0-3 even though they shipped with only banks 0-1 installed, and even the (8722? I think?) MMU includes everything needed to operate them... except for the two bank-select lines, which were not brought out on their own pins because it saved a lot of money to stick with a standard 40-pin DIP case.)
The simplest RAM-expansion mod I'm aware of piggybacks a second MMU and layer of DRAMs on the first, with a couple of the added MMU's address lines swapped; that way the original MMU does its job most of the time, but whenever you activate banks 2 or 3, the extra MMU sees it as bank 0 or 1 and activates one of its bank-select lines... which are connected to the extra layer of DRAM chips, which are used as banks 2-3.
If one of these boards is present instead of a huge array of DIP-chip DRAMs, would adding a second copy of the board work as desired? (With its much lower power draw, I would expect it to at least not come out _less_ stable, but these things continue to surprise us even after nearly 40 years.)
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Post by eslapion on Jan 24, 2021 23:04:36 GMT
It's impossible to satisfy your curiosity not knowing exactly how the extra banks are added.
Saruman-128 is designed to behave like a group of DRAM ICs covering two banks of 64k x8 (equivalent to 16 DRAM ICs of 64k x1 or 4 DRAM ICs of 64k x4) so it should work as replacement for pretty much anything that uses this type of memory chip in the same way.
"If one of these boards is present instead of a huge array of DIP-chip DRAMs, would adding a second copy of the board work as desired?" - You don't give any plan so it's impossible to say yes or no for sure but I would be tempted to say it would considering the extra banks normally use more of the same type of RAM chips. In theory, it's possible to install up to 4 Saruman-128 modules in a C128 and that would still use less power than the real DRAM ICs and you'd get 8 banks.
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Post by gsteemso on Jan 25, 2021 20:49:07 GMT
I, ah, did a worse-than-usual job of framing that question, didn't I? I'm sorry. Yes, you correctly deduced what I was trying to ask -- I wanted to know how the board's electrical loading compared against the older construction methods involving, I don't know, a big array of 4116s or whatever else someone had available. I _reeeeally_ didn't intend for it to sound like a snotty request for unpaid design review services. *wince*
But yes, the usual thing for the 256K mod is to just add two more flat DRAM banks of 64KiB each. Expansions beyond that involve either trying to guess how the C128's native 1-meg MMU design was _intended_ to be fully realized, or simply ignoring it entirely -- kludging in a PET-style block-swapping scheme instead, controlled through an extra 6522-type peripheral chip with I/O port(s).
I'm fairly sure that one design I saw, years ago, actually combined both approaches -- three quarters of the MMU banks were simply 64K blocks of RAM, while each of the remainder were 64K arrays of smaller, independently-mapped blocks. (I can't recall, at this point, whether those were mapped in 4K at a time or 16K at a time. I suppose it doesn't actually matter at this point.)
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Post by eslapion on Jan 29, 2021 5:04:20 GMT
I, ah, did a worse-than-usual job of framing that question, didn't I? I'm sorry. Yes, you correctly deduced what I was trying to ask -- I wanted to know how the board's electrical loading compared against the older construction methods involving, I don't know, a big array of 4116s or whatever else someone had available. I _reeeeally_ didn't intend for it to sound like a snotty request for unpaid design review services. *wince* But yes, the usual thing for the 256K mod is to just add two more flat DRAM banks of 64KiB each. Expansions beyond that involve either trying to guess how the C128's native 1-meg MMU design was _intended_ to be fully realized, or simply ignoring it entirely -- kludging in a PET-style block-swapping scheme instead, controlled through an extra 6522-type peripheral chip with I/O port(s). I'm fairly sure that one design I saw, years ago, actually combined both approaches -- three quarters of the MMU banks were simply 64K blocks of RAM, while each of the remainder were 64K arrays of smaller, independently-mapped blocks. (I can't recall, at this point, whether those were mapped in 4K at a time or 16K at a time. I suppose it doesn't actually matter at this point.) I had no idea your real question revolved around the amount of power used. I just thought it would be relevant to mention that the amount of power used is not at issue if you want to have multiple Saruman-128 in a single C128. A Saruman-128 module consumes about half the power of a single one 4164 DRAM IC and there are 16 of these in a standard C-128. BTW, the 4116 (16k x1) is not used in the C128. A pair of 4416 (16k x4) are used with the VDC and 16 4164 (64k x1) are used for the main RAM. In the C128Dcr, four 4464 (64k x4) are used for main RAM and two more are used for the VDC which has 64kBytes instead of 16. I reeeealy didn't see this as a snotty request but as a technical question which is missing a few important details. I answered the portion I could. I think this can help... www.cubic.org/~doj/c64/mapping128.pdfThe schematics suggested here has the effect of adding new RAMCAS lines which each correspond to 64k of extra RAM. www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/documents/projects/memory/c128/1028/1028.htmlFollowing this plan and using 3 extra Saruman-128 modules on top of the one which replaces the initial 16 DRAM ICs, you should be able to push your C128 to a total of 512k of RAM.
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